7. Futures
SYNOPSIS
Illustration by Nicole Xu
What does the future hold for abortion care? In this final episode of Post-Roe America, we hear from clinicians and advocates at the forefront of finding new solutions for patients in need.
LISTEN
Featuring
Amy Meg Autry, MD
April Lockley, DO
Jiana Menendez, MD MPH
Oriaku Njoku
Linda Prine, MD
And other contributors who wish to remain anonymous
Credits
Host & Co-creator: Ali Block, MD
Co-creator: Emily Silverman, MD
Lead Producer & Editor: Molly-Rose Williams
Producer, Editor & Audio Engineer: Sam Osborn
Producer & Editor: Jessica Yung
Audio Engineer: Jon Oliver
Student Producers: Anjali Walia, Dahlia Kaki, Fiona Miller, Mulki Mehari, and Treya Tompkins
Assistant Producer: Carly Besser
Chief Operating Officer: Rebecca Groves
Series Illustrator: Nicole Xu
Music: Blue Dot Sessions
Resources
Sponsors
The Nocturnists: Post-Roe America series was made possible in part by the Josiah Macy Jr. Foundation and the Danziger Family Fund at The Chicago Community Foundation.
Support for The Nocturnists’ medical student producer program comes from the California Academy of Family Physicians Foundation.
The Nocturnists is supported by the California Medical Association, and people like you who have donated through our website and Patreon page.
TRANSCRIPT
click to expand
The Nocturnists: Post-Roe America
Episode 7. Futures
Transcript
Note: The Nocturnists is created primarily as a listening experience. The audio contains emotion, emphasis, and soundscapes that are not easily transcribed. We encourage you to listen to the episode if at all possible. Our transcripts are produced using both speech recognition software and human copy editors, and may not be 100% accurate. Thank you for consulting the audio before quoting in print.
Ali Block
Welcome to The Nocturnists: Post-Roe. America, I'm Ali Block. Over the course of this series, we've covered what's changed in the abortion landscape since the Dobbs decision. In some ways, we've been looking backwards, taking stock. But for this last episode, we want to look at what's happening right now. And as we said at the beginning of the series, there isn't one single unified voice when it comes to abortion advocacy. It's a tapestry of different ideas, hard work, and pie-in-the-sky gambits so today we're bringing you three stories of people in the world of abortion access, that are taking different approaches to the care they offer. In the first, we meet those behind what's probably the largest shift in reproductive care since Dobbs, and what might constitute the foreseeable future of abortion access in red states – medication abortion via telehealth.
Automated Phone Message Voice
...extension four, one, send a voicemail.
Linda Prine
Hi, this is the hotline doctor. Can I help you?
Caller
Hi, yeah, I was hoping...
Ali Block
This is Linda Prine, one of the volunteers at the Miscarriage and Abortion Hotline. She was also one of the founders of the hotline back in 2019.
Linda Prine
You're fine, you're really fine. You're not pregnant anymore. You don't need an ultrasound. You're gonna have a period that will be a little extra heavy. This is definitely not dangerous in any way. And it's definitely not a continuing pregnancy. Because...
Ali Block
Linda is one of 60 volunteers that take shifts answering phones, text messages and emails from people who are primarily in the process of self-managing their medication abortions.
Caller
Wow.
Linda Prine
Okay?
Caller
Thank you so much.
Linda Prine
Okay, you hang in there, take care and call us back if you have any questions as you're going through the process.
April Lockley
So the hotline was started because abortion access is, you know, historically been horrible.
Ali Block
This is April Lockley, Medical Director of the hotline which became a crucial resource during the pandemic, when more people were managing their abortions at home. But demand for medication abortions unsurprisingly shot way up after Dobbs, especially in states where access has become restricted.
April Lockley
I would say on an average day, we talk to anywhere from 50 to 70 people and that's either text messaging or phone calls. Sometimes the questions are very brief and can be answered in 20 seconds or a one-line text response. And other times the calls are 20-30 minutes, or we're texting with people for days or weeks while they're going through the abortion process. And so, especially now, after the Dobbs decision, people are just really confused about if they can have an abortion, where they can access an abortion, how they can get medication abortion pills. So we reassure people about that and about the safety of the medications. So it's a lot of managing that anxiety after people have had an abortion has been a big theme that we're seeing, especially after the Dobbs decision and people are just very understandably nervous about being pregnant when they don't want to be pregnant.
Ali Block
If there was a silver lining to be found from the pandemic, it was that it normalized telemedicine for abortion care. When abortion clinics were deemed non-essential care. The FDA allowed for abortion medication to be prescribed remotely, and for the pills to either be picked up at the clinic without a visit or mailed. We learned that all the stuff we were making patients do beforehand – clinic visits, blood tests, ultrasounds – wasn't actually necessary. And that remote medication abortions are totally safe. Now telehealth medical abortions are fast becoming the norm in the post-Roe landscape.
Kate
We went from being physicians to being shipping clerks. First I had to learn how to use this shipping equipment, like label makers and buying the right envelopes. And you know, I used to show up at the post office with these gigantic bags like I was Santa Claus. And my post office never asked what I was doing. You could shake my bag and say this is a weird load of stuff.
Ali Block
This is one of the physicians who works with Aid Access. She requested to stay anonymous, so we'll call her Kate,
Kate
What really got me involved to become a provider across state lines is, I was the medical director of a clinic in Alabama – in Montgomery, Alabama – that, of course, closed down in June 2022, the day of the Dobbs decision, because of laws that were already on the books. And I came north to a state where we had extensive rights and access. And because of a flight away, I left people with no access in complete chaos with their health and their wellbeing in jeopardy, all because of some state lines. And that's when the whole idea of providing telemedicine abortion provision across state lines came to mind.
Ali Block
With a handful of other physicians, she began shipping out abortion medications to people in restricted states entering into a kind of legal gray zone.
Kate
I think that what motivated us was, you know, where most of us are a little bit later in our careers. If we lost our license, we were like, OK, it'd be done soon anyway. So I think that was part of the motivation most most, most of us are older. And if we knock a few years off of our careers, it's probably okay.
Ali Block
But to make this less of a fly-by-night operation, and hopefully bring younger physicians into the fold, they knew they'd have to minimize their legal exposure.
Kate
So I immediately started working with my state legislatures to... I didn't know what it was called, it didn't have a name at the time, to try to pass a shield law.
Jiana Menendez
Overall, the idea of a shield law is to prevent criminalization from outside states of abortion care in the state in question.
Ali Block
This is Jiana Menendez, a family medicine doctor based in New York, who worked on passing shield law legislation there, and now plays a large role in reproductive advocacy in the state.
Jiana Menendez
And so the first stage of shield laws that started kind of immediately after Dobbs – I think Connecticut was the first to pass a shield law – really dealt with people traveling to those states to access abortion care. You know, fundamentally, it's not illegal to do that. And like the way our constitution is designed, you follow the law of the land in the state that you're in. So it should not be illegal to travel to Connecticut to get abortion care.
Ali Block
States that have restricted abortion access, are unsurprisingly trying to pass laws that circumvent this legality. Texas, for instance, is trying to make it illegal to use their highways to leave the state to access abortion care.
Jiana Menendez
Concerns about these types of creative legislation from anti-abortion politicians made a lot of states put into effect laws reaffirming that it's legal to do that and putting protections in place saying like very explicitly, like, if another state tries to like subpoena records from our state or tries to get the cooperation of our police departments, that we're not going to cooperate, we're going to protect both the patients and providers that are doing that work. And those are preemptive. And they're important, but the real work over the last year has been about getting shield laws in place for telemedicine, which has been like the new frontier of abortion care.
For most medical legal reasons, telemedicine occurs in the place where the patient resides. So what these shield laws are doing, what they do is they redefine abortion care as occurring in the place where the provider is. And so a New York doctor could sit in their office in New York and see a patient from Texas, but that care has been defined as being in New York, they could see them for a telemedicine abortion assessment, prescribe them pills while in New York, and then send the pills to, say, for example, Texas. Now, the reason they're shield laws is because Texas would view that as illegal Texas law would say that you're practicing medicine in Texas because the patient is residing in Texas. But New York law now says no, you're practicing medicine in New York. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Ali Block
And so when Kate began searching for a way to help her patients in Alabama from the northern state where she now lived, she hit on the idea of the shield law.
Kate
It helped that I had a good friend who was a state senator. And so I immediately contacted her. And I told her about how frantic I was, how worried I was about my patients and the women in Alabama. And and what can we do about it in this state? There wasn't another state that had it. It's that didn't exist. But then as we started to say, "Could this be possible? Could a state go against another state's laws?" And it seems a little crazy, but then Massachusetts was the first state that passed a shield law. And so we got in touch with the people who helped draft that to see if we could draft something in my state. And in fact, that's exactly what we did. And it passed overwhelmingly in both the state and the house and then passed by the governor. Because how could you not?
Ali Block
Jiana brought a similar law to the New York State Legislature.
Jiana Menendez
With the shield laws, we really had to convince the legislature that this was safe, that we were doing the right thing. It was a beast to get people on the same page and like talk through the constitutional law and like, look at it and re-word the language and make sure it was what we wanted. And we got it through the Senate pretty quickly. And then we stalled in the house for a long time.
Ali Block
The bill ended up being assigned to the Codes and Insurance Committee, rather than the Health Committee. This meant a lot of rewrites to make sure that the insurance industry didn't become exposed by the new law.
Jiana Menendez
It took a lot of work to really get that language where we needed it. And then it didn't match the Senate language anymore. So then we had to get it past the Senate again.
Ali Block
Eventually the law was passed. The Governor was actually so proud of the legislation that she called a special session to push it through. There's a photo of the governor signing the bill with Linda Prine standing behind her. Jiana was supposed to be there too. But she had clinic patients scheduled that day. Now there are 15 states with some form of shield laws on the books. But that doesn't mean that medication abortions by telemedicine are protected.
Kate
So they can't come and get us in our states. But if we go to Texas, and we get pulled over for a traffic violation, and they find out there's, you know, some warrant, I mean, we could go to jail, and then our state can't come and get us. Again, this is theoretically, it's a little bit of fear mongering. So far that hasn't happened. We don't know if it could happen. We just, we don't know.
Ali Block
Not only that, but the law itself hasn't been tested in the courts.
Kate
We always point to each other saying, "I hope it's you." We're kind of surprised something hasn't happened yet, to be honest, but nothing has. But, I mean, eventually it will. This is essential healthcare. What is known, is that this... no matter if abortions are legal, or illegal in a country, it doesn't change the rate of abortions. It just changes where they happen, the safety of them. In fact, there has been an increase in abortion in the formal health care system, which doesn't even account for us. And I think that's because abortion clinics have closed in these states, which has decreased the access to contraception.
Ali Block
Medication abortions are a great solution for a lot of people, especially those early in their pregnancies. But there are still many, many people who will need procedural or in-clinic abortions. Which brings us to our second story. Who makes sure that these types of abortions can be available to all who need them?
Oriaku Njoku
So, my name is Oriaku Njoku. I use "she" and "they" pronouns. Love for folks, to mix them up. And I am the Executive Director of the National Network of Abortion Funds. Abortion Funds are like people's first call when they need support navigating the barriers to abortion care.
Ali Block
Abortion Funds do everything from helping people to pay for their abortions, to providing transportation, childcare, translation services, doula services, or even places to stay for people who have to travel to get an abortion. NNAF the organization that Oriaku directs is an umbrella organization that supports over 100 abortion funds across the country.
Oriaku Njoku
I mean, we've essentially always been like this anchor to ensure the needs of our membership were being met in order to adequately meet the needs of their communities. And you know, what that has looked like has evolved over time. But some of it is like, "Let's take a look at this policy. Does this make sense for the conditions that we're in right now?" It's like, "How do you navigate conflict? How do you ground yourself and find ways to, like, pause, to find ways to pace yourself differently?"
Ali Block
Oriaku says this holistic approach to reproductive rights work has just always made sense to her. Part of that is from how she entered the field in the first place more than 10 years ago. After just having been fired from a job at Bloomingdale's, a friend invited her to a reproductive justice training. She attended with no expectations or prior knowledge, beyond that she'd be provided breakfast and lunch.
Oriaku Njoku
So I went to this training and that's where I first heard about what reproductive justice is, which is the human right to bodily autonomy – to choose to be a parent, not to be a parent, and to raise your kids and have your families live in safe and sustainable communities. You know, it moved away from this choice binary where, in the reproductive health and rights movement, where you always think about like "The right to choose." This shifted from that and said that like, "Each person has a myriad of things that influence their decision making process everyday." And that can be the environment, the economy, access to a living or thriving wage, access to information around health, I mean, your race, your gender, ethnicity, all of these things play into why people make the decisions they make. And so for me as like a black, queer, first generation, Nigerian-American, fat, southern person, it was like, oh, there's a place where all of these things has a home. All of these things can be treated with dignity and respect. I don't have to silo myself anymore because there's actually a place for all of them that's welcomed and received with joy. And so as soon as I did that training, I'm like, "Oh, I gotta find something in this movement. I don't know what. I don't care." Like, "I got to find something."
Ali Block
Not too long after that, an opportunity presented itself.
Oriaku Njoku
I had gotten a job by that point and was working at a massage place answering phones as a lifestyle consultant, and saw that there was a job opening at an abortion clinic in North Buckhead, Atlanta. And you know, if you don't like really know about the Atlanta area, Buckhead is like, like the Beverly Hills of the South. Like it's really bourgie. There's the shops and all the things that I'm like, "I talk to rich white women every single day," like this was a transferable skill that I could go out to an abortion clinic in North Buckhead and talk to folks. That's where I was at. When I got to my first clinic day, the only white person in the clinic was our clinic administrator. Everyone else was a person of color. The people who came to get their abortions, their escort, everyone. And it wasn't just from Buckhead, or just from Atlanta. These were folks coming from states surrounding Georgia and beyond. And my mind was blown. I was like, "What is actually happening right now? Why are people traveling from like Kentucky, Ohio, just to get abortion care?"
Ali Block
This was 2014, a few years after a flurry of anti-abortion legislation had caused a number of clinics to shut down in the south. So there were an increasing number of people forced to travel for abortion access. And Oriaku just happened to be working at one of the major resources in the region. She and two of her coworkers started brainstorming ways to better meet the need they were seeing every day at the clinic.
Oriaku Njoku
And I was like, "Y'all, we got to do something to show up for our communities, and want a better way. Because all of this back and forth and navigating through these various barriers to get abortions, this actually doesn't make sense." And so we're like, "Let's start an abortion fund. Like, why not?"
Ali Block
At the time, there weren't any abortion funds in their region. So they started looking into other abortion funds around the country for ideas. Soon after, they founded Access Reproductive Care Southeast.
Oriaku Njoku
Looking back on it, I'm like, "What in the world?" I remember, we didn't even have like, the direct deposit setup in our bank accounts. So I remember getting the check of our first grant in the mail, and crying and then going to the bank and they're like, "We need a manager." "I promise it's not a scam. Like, this is from a legit funder. Here you go. We're putting it into our organizational bank account."
Ali Block
Fast forward almost a decade. And the day after the Dobbs leak, Oriaku was offered the job as Executive Director for the National Network of Abortion Funds.
Oriaku Njoku
I said yes. And then my last day at ARC Southeast was June 30. The Dobbs decision came in June 24th. I remember that day folks messaging me and being like, "Should we come back to work, should we..." I was, like, "You have to prioritize your rest. This is literally just the beginning of this work." I knew that this was not like the end of a thing, but a beginning of a new era in our movement.
Ali Block
And since then, that's what Oriaku has been working towards. The way they see it, their job is first and foremost about imagining a new kind of future – leading a culture shift around how abortion care in the US gets done. And Abortion Funds have become infinitely more important since Dobbs. This is because of the money needed for all the additional travel, time off work, transportation and lodging that's required for people seeking abortions outside of restricted states. In fact, if you ask anyone deep into this work, where people should donate their money, they'll almost certainly say, donate to Abortion Funds.
Oriaku Njoku
There's no way that we can continue to move in this reactionary way without pausing to acknowledge that like harm has been done. People are coming from a traumatized place –people are afraid. So only focusing on the legality of abortion, it never guaranteed accessibility, it never guaranteed availability. And that sure didn't do anything to make sure that the way that we talk about abortion in our culture is something that is acceptable. What I keep going back to personally, is that my therapist (thanks, girl for showing up for me weekly), but my therapist is the one who let me know that anxiety is the inability to deal with uncertainty. And when she said that, to me, I was like, "Oh, baby, I play to win." Like, I will not continue to move into this place where I'm like, "I don't know what's going on. I don't know how to move. I'm just stuck in this, like analysis paralysis." And I'm like, "No, I'm deeply committed to being able to deal with the uncertainty," which is effectively what happens every day, you know, in our movement.
Ali Block
That proactive attitude that Oriaku is talking about, is at the heart of our third and final story. I want you to meet Meg Autry, an abortion provider at UCSF who looked at a Mississippi riverboat, one of those floating casinos you'll find down south and thought she might be looking at the future of abortion access.
Meg Autry
Because I'm so familiar with the South and the Mississippi River. I was constantly like, "Why can people gamble on the Mississippi River, but they can't gamble on the land?"
Ali Block
And so it got her thinking, "What was it about the water that made gambling legal?"
Meg Autry
One of my co-residents and I used to always have this joke of an idea that we would do Pap smears on a sailboat in the bay. And like you could go and you and be on the sailboat and you would be in this beautiful space and get your Pap smear and then maybe have a glass of wine and come back.
Ali Block
But as the attacks on abortion access began to pile up in 2018, that joke began to seem like more of a good idea.
Meg Autry
The idea at that point was seeing if you could run a reproductive health or abortion clinic on the Mississippi River. I really need to explore if this is possibility. So we didn't have a name, we didn't have anything. We're just like, "Is this feasible?" This is a group all trying to figure out innovative, pie-in-the-sky, out-there ideas to combat what was going on, you know, nationally.
Ali Block
So she teamed up with a colleague at UCSF, found a lawyer, and got to work.
Meg Autry
Ultimately, the lawyers concluded that in order to do, provide reproductive health care in the Mississippi River, essentially you can only be off the coast of Illinois and Minnesota. And so that wasn't really going to help the people that we thought needed help. And we started having these conversations like, "Okay, it's not legal in the Mississippi, but maybe it could be legal in federal waters in the Gulf Coast," and, "Wow, look at the Gulf Coast! It... every single state on the Gulf Coast is restricted."
Ali Block
Something like this has actually been pulled off before. In 1999, the Dutch physician Rebecca Gomperts founded the organization Women on Waves, which provided non-surgical abortions on a boat in international waters, along with all sorts of other reproductive health services. The organization would pull into harbor in a restrictive nation, like Ireland, take aboard women seeking care, and travel 20 kilometers offshore. In these neutral waters, the law that governed the nation in which the boat was constructed, which in this case was the Netherlands where medical abortions were legal, was the law that could be enforced. Women on Waves still exists today. And Dr. Gomperts went on to found Aid Access, which Kate mentioned earlier,
Meg Autry
I did not get my idea from Rebecca Gomperts, from Women on Waves. But once I had told my idea to people, they're like, You need to talk to Rebecca Gomperts. And and so I did. And she's just an amazing individual who... and a pioneer. And one of the things she said was, "Get a faster boat." That's right. And it has to be different because we are doing... we're actually doing surgical terminations. So we have to have a boat that's big enough to accommodate a helicopter for emergencies. So that's about 40, at least 42 meters.
Ali Block
Building a 42-meter-long boat, which by the way, is a big boat, and outfitting it to be capable of functioning as a surgical abortion clinic was obviously going to be a heavy logistical lift. But the reality of losing abortion access in the vast majority of the South, to Meg, was a problem worthy of an ambitious solution.
Meg Autry
The whole point of being in the Gulf is to help people who cannot afford to get to clinics on the land. And those are mostly poor people, people of color, people living in the southernmost part of these states. And so if you're in Brownsville, Texas, to get to Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the minimum, is going to take you two days. And it's around... ultimately, we decided, like $3,000. But even if it's paid, it's still two days away from your family or your job. And if you can't afford that, either monetarily or personally, then it's not an option for you.
Ali Block
And so one of the first things they did was to see who, if anyone, would be interested in an abortion on a boat, if that were ever to become a possibility. So they teamed up with TxPEP, a project within the University of Texas, and included a question in a national study that was already ongoing. What they found was that 50% of respondents would get an abortion on a boat if that was the closest option. And this was pre-Dobbs. After Dobbs, they ran another study, this time with only respondents from Texas, and found that 80% of respondents would be open to the idea.
Meg Autry
We decided, like we we have to be ready to go we need to be ready to go public when the Dobbs decision comes down. So we hired a ship consultant, we hired a an operations person who has a background in architecture. We came up with a name, it's called Prrowess – P-R-R-O-W-E-S-S – Protecting Reproductive Rights of Women Endangered by State Statutes. We met monthly, we incorporated, we established a 501(c)(3).
Ali Block
They basically got themselves to the point where they could announce their intent to build this floating clinic and start the process of fundraising.
Meg Autry
So the response was incredible, both from small donors, from the legal, the maritime, and the medical community. I mean, I'm not a development person, but our development person said, you know, this is unprecedented that you're being contacted by foundations, instead of you contacting them.
Ali Block
But then some reality sunk in as much as foundations wanted to get involved. Many were restricted from actually helping to build the floating clinic. They could support its upkeep once it was operational, but they couldn't be the ones to finance its construction. Not only that, there were some legal details that they hadn't foreseen.
Meg Autry
So they believe it has to be Jones Act compliant, which means it has to have been built in the U.S. And then it needs to have a home port in the U.S. and be flagged and in a state that's not restricted. And then you have to think about like how much time you can be at sea without refueling and replenishing supplies and things like that. And so we think we can serve, on average, around 4,000 patients a year. And that's accommodating for you know, the rough seas, so we wouldn't be out there for at least two months, probably. But when we were out there, we'd probably be out there 14 days straight. So like, essentially being operational seven days a week.
Meg Autry
So we believe buying a boat would take about two months, and then retrofitting it to making it clinic-worthy would take about three months. So, we think we could be operational in six months.
Ali Block
So that's where they are now. Still meeting monthly. Still untangling the legal logistics, raising money. It's hard to say, even for Meg, whether this idea will ever become a reality.
Meg Autry
I understand why it's a hard sell. But on the other hand, like, it's a commentary on where we are in this country, right? That we need to go to these lengths. And hopefully people understand that patients are willing to get on a boat to get an abortion because they can't get the care that they need and deserve in their own state. Like that's huge.
Ali Block
This kind of creative out of left field thinking spurred by the Post-Roe America that we now live in, is a testament to how critical basic abortion rights are. But it's also a reminder that none of this is new. Abortion providers, advocates, and their patients have always faced barriers to providing and accessing this basic care. And they have and will continue to reimagine ways of meeting this basic human right. So this series has been a snapshot of an ongoing dynamic story at a time of a seismic shift. Dobbs has offered a lens through which we can understand the much longer, much larger fight for bodily autonomy and reproductive justice in this country. Until everyone has the ability to choose the life they want for themselves and their families, and the access to resources to make that possible, the idea of a true pre- or post- era is theoretical at best. This is, and always has been, about so much more than abortion.
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this series. Your voices have offered a rare and invaluable glimpse of where we are and where we might hope to go. Not everyone who we spoke to appeared in the episodes, but your perspectives were foundational in shaping the series. So thank you for your stories, and thank you for your work. And finally, on a personal note, I want to thank my fellow abortion providers again for sharing your perspectives. The process of collaborating on this series was meaningful to me in ways I didn't even know I needed. After years of working in the abortion world and in the words of Nikki Zite from the first episode, so often feeling like "Chicken Little" squawking about how the sky is falling for reproductive rights in the US. It's been both inspiring and sustaining to have a sense of shared effort and community in this work. Abortion care is a human right. We hope this series can be part of the fight for that right.
The Nocturnists: Post-Roe America was created by me, Ali Block and Emily Silverman. Our lead producer was Molly Rose-Williams and our producers were Sam Osborn and Jessica Yung. Jon Oliver helped with the mixing and Carly Besser assistant produced. Thanks to medical student producers, Anjali Walia, Dahlia Kaki, Fiona Miller and Mulki Mehari, and pre-health intern, Treya Tompkins. Our Chief Operating Officer is Rebecca Groves. The series illustrations are by Nicole Xu. The Nocturnists theme music is by Yosef Munro and all additional music comes from Blue Dot Sessions.
The Nocturnists: Post-Roe America series was made possible in part by the Josiah Macy Jr. Foundation. The Nocturnists is supported by the California Medical Association, a physician-led organization that works tirelessly to make sure that the doctor-patient relationship remains at the center of medicine. To learn more about the CMA, visit cmadocs.org.
Our show is also made possible with donations from listeners like you. Thank you for supporting our work in storytelling.
If you enjoy our show, please follow us in your favorite podcast app so you don't miss an episode. You can also help others find us by telling your friends and colleagues, posting this episode on social media, and leaving us a rating and review in your favorite podcast app.
To contribute your voice to an upcoming project or to support our work with a donation, visit our website at thenocturnists.com. You can also find resources with more information about the state of abortion in the U.S., as well as ways to advocate and get involved, at the series website. I'm your host, Ali Block. Thanks for listening.